DISQUS

newcritics: Wednesday Night at the Movies: Sweet Smell of Success Open Thread

  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    I'm here. Will somebody tell this coatcheck girl to get away from me, can't she see I'm not wearing a coat?
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    Hey there Mannion. Saving tips?
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    So, since you're here--do you like this movie as much as I do? Or do I overpraise?
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Match me, Campaspe.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    If you remember, Sid says "Not right now."
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Can't think of a movie you've ever overpraised.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    This one is a favorite. You get the superb dialogue AND the visuals. Did you notice that JJ lives in the Brill Building?
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Dont' forget, I'm only a fake New Yorker. I'm a tourist really. Where's the Brill Building?
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    49th and Broadway. It's an eyeful. I had a friend who did a short job editing something there.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    I'll stop by next week when I'm visiting with President Clinton.
  • tomwatson · 1 year ago
    You gonna be at CGI?
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    That's the plan. How about you?
  • tomwatson · 1 year ago
    Yep, planning to blog it for onPhilanthropy...
  • jmhm · 1 year ago
    See you boys there, then.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    But I wonder if how much of our enjoyment of the movie is based on how far against type both Lancaster and Curtis are playing it?
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    To me this is one movie where they both really disappear into their characters. I think it was Ebert who pointed out that it's easy to remember their characters' names, unlike other movies where you're saying "And then Burt Lancaster kisses her in the surf..."
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Wait a minute, I got this one. Sergeant...Sergeant...Um...Sergeant Lancaster?
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    And the only other Tony Curtis part where I can remember the name, he was playing Albert di Salvo. I liked him in The Defiant Ones and I still don't remember that name.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    In Some Like it Hot was he Josephine or Gertrude?
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    HA. Wasn't he Josephine?

    and when I try to remember him in Spartacus I think of him saying "I am Spartacus" which is not helpful. Antoninus? is that it?
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    You think though this is part of the reason it bombed at the time? Nobody wanted to see these guys play sleazy?
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    Oh definitely. The Bad and the Beautiful imagines a moviegoer thinking, "geez, they were so likable in Trapeze!"

    Plus it was 1957, times were good. People didn't want to sit in a movie theatre for 96 minutes and be told we're no damn good.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    I like what you say about Hitchcock and Mann showing the sinister side of a leading man's charm.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    It's true, and to this day it's a risky thing to do.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    One previewergoer wrote on her card that they should just burn the whole thing.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Sometimes when I watch Jimmy Stewart in those movies it's hard for me to take. It's like falling into an alternative opposite universe, like the Mirror Mirror episode of Star Trek.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Must have been hard to see two favorites play it that mean when they weren't expecting it.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    And I do wonder if I would have recognized its brilliance in 1957, or hated it like everyone else. Ditto Nightmare Alley. That's why I love a critic who is willing to go out on a limb for a movie that audiences don't get, like Dennis Cozzalio recently did for Speed Racer. You don't always know what the judgment of time is going to be. Most of the reviews I read for Raging Bull in 1980 were awful, and for the same reasons as Sweet Smell--sleazy, hateful characters. By the end of the decade it's tops on everybody's 10 best.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Our 12 year old turned Speed Racer off a third of the way in.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    But I swear Dennis makes a good case for it. Especially if you haven't seen the movie yet, as I have not.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    But I get the point. Still, I wish more movie stars would risk it more often.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    I swear, though, that even when he was playing heroic, Lancaster was often trying to make himself a little obnoxious.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    I'm not sure he had to try. He said later that Mackendrick considered him "pure evil." And a couple of biographers have alleged that he hit his girlfriends. That violence that always seemed to simmer within him was quite real. But not all actors can use it the way he did.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    I was going to ask you about why he was so hated by so many people?
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    When Ernest Lehman walked into to HHL for his first meeting, he claimed that Lancaster emerged from another room zipping his fly and announcing "She swallowed."

    I adore him in movies but I doubt I would have found him nearly as appealing in real life. He was an arguer on set too; he had a huge blowup with Mackendrick over what the ending should be.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Wait a minute. I had a roommate like this in college. I didn't know Burt Lancaster was his hero.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    isn't that just repulsive? Lehman was ready to walk out on the spot. No wonder his ulcer went haywire.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Seems to me that Lancaster's real acting triumph in Sweet Smell of Success was in making himself...physically weaker. And it's not just the glasses.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    I'm not sure it's weaker, it's more like coiled. He moves very quietly and deliberately. He never raises his voice, he doesn't have to. His tone is so quiet and conversational in that great scene with the politician.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    I definitely wouldn't want J.J. mad at me. I just meant he doesn't seem like he can bend steel bars in his bare hands. Hunseker/Bloodsucker's power though comes from his pure meanness, his willingness to destroy you without a qualm. It's the movie's...charm...that this sociopath seems so rational.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    He seems rational until the subject of his sister comes up. She's the only thing that has the power to make him come unglued.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Not rational. Plausible. He made Hunseker someone you could believe not only lived among us but thrived. A more realistic American type than Davy Crockett.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    Gah, ain't that truth. Hunsecker lives. If Bill O'Reilly had more polish he'd be the spit and image.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    O'Reilly's a Falco who somehow got Hunseker's job.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Of course, Hunseker's a Falco who somehow got Hunseker's job, that's the slap in America's face that the movie delivers----success comes not to the talented or even to the honestly criminal, it comes to the weasels and snivellers and liars and cheats.
  • Vanwall · 1 year ago
    I had a friend who said this must've been a partial documentary about Lancaster - she couldn't believe such a hateful character could've been played by acting alone.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    There were people who liked Lancaster. Just not, apparently, on this movie set, outside of maybe Curtis.
  • Vanwall · 1 year ago
    Oh, I love the guy, but this was the other side of his one-eyed jack, I think. As much as he was savaged regularly by columnists, I suspect some revenge was in order, too.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    You have to hand it to Lancaster for even wanting to do the picture. No one else would touch it.
  • Vanwall · 1 year ago
    He was certainly fearless, I think he was too stubborn to back off anything he believed in. I'm sure this wasn't seen as a good career move, but for chance to say those lines, I'd've jumped, too.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Lots of actors today bulk up for parts. It's as if he bulked DOWN.
  • Vanwall · 1 year ago
    I always marveled at his uniform in "From Here to Eternity" - no human bein' could look that good, but he sure did.
  • Mike Schilling · 1 year ago
    Milt something.
  • tomwatson · 1 year ago
    Hey there - how about those sweet 1950s midtown Manhattan locations! Wow...I'm a total sucker, always peering past the actors.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    Oh I totally do that in every movie. It's sad when I recognize things that are no longer there. That happens a lot with Woody Allen movies.
  • tomwatson · 1 year ago
    Totally - as I recall there's a great Flatiron Building shot in SSOS, and Times Square, and over by the docks (when there were docks) etc. A world gone by. Sort of like E.B. White's Here is New York a decade on...
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    Yep, not to mention all those great nightclubs that are gone now, and the jazz haunts. The whole movie stays in a relatively small slice of Manhattan that's now basically a mall.
  • tomwatson · 1 year ago
    Oh so true - still some great old buildings, but Times Square is gone. And the old-time diners, the burger joints, the soda shops, are all going fast, replaced by chains or over-the-top "upscale."
  • tomwatson · 1 year ago
    There are lurkers here - c'mon lurkers....de-lurk!
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Yeah, you lurkers. Ask C. a question if nothing else? Let's play stump the hostess.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    There's a lot more to discuss, like the movie's strong political themes, both overt and smuggled. Hunsecker is a soapbox patriot just like Winchell was.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    What do you consider to be one of the smuggled political themes?
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    The blacklist is never mentioned by name but it's definitely hovering over the movie. Hunsecker uses the Communist allegation like a cudgel.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    We haven't mentioned Tony Curtis/Sidney Falco yet either.
  • tomwatson · 1 year ago
    Yeah - "press agents" - how quaint. Now everybody's a public relations strategist.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    He's great. Probably the performance of his career, Gertrude/Josephine notwithstanding. He really understood the part, said it was the sort of thing he should have been playing, not all the Baghdad-and-boobs stuff.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    He lets himself be short too. Mouse. Shrimp. And the way he looks in the mirror, like he senses there's something not quite right about how pretty he looks.
  • tomwatson · 1 year ago
    "Hey eyelashes..."
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    It's a really naked performance. He didn't try to make Sid anything more than he was.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    It's really his movie, don't you think?
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    He's certainly easier to identify with, if you can admit that to yourself. Most of us aren't going to have Hunsecker's power. Before I posted tonight Mr. C was asking if I found him sympathetic, and despite all his loathsomeness (like when he gets his girlfriend to sleep with someone else!) in a way he is.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    The press agent that Falco was based on had a bedroom adjacent to his office.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    "If you can admit that to yourself." Who wants to? But it's true, there's a sweaty desperation in our desire to get ahead. Wanting what Falco wants is a sign of weakness. Our supposed go-go spirit is a national self-con.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    And there we may have the core reason the film flopped. The 1950s were such a go-go time, nobody wanted to have it all peeled away and someone saying, "Look, this is what it really takes, this is what your success is all about."
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    And it was pretty good of Lancaster the producer to let him have it.
  • larry aydlette · 1 year ago
    Hellllloooo, Siren. A few things I love about the movie, and damn you for stealing my one-Adam-12-see-a-man-seated line about Milner:

    It's not the sweet smell of success, it's the sweet stink of patheticness, if that's a word. What horrible lives of seedy desperation and flop sweat all these people lead, and for what meager results: A line or two in a column.

    Is the movie's weakness the whole I want my sister routine? You know, as a plot point it's kind of lame.

    Marty Milner's jazz combo is hot.

    I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Sidney Falco's combination press office-apartment.

    And the thing about Lancaster's great performance is not that he doesn't blink (" a night owl whose eyes never seem to blink behind his glasses."). He blinks. What amazes me is how Howe shot that entire movie and managed to black out the area between the top frame line of Lancaster's glasses and his eyelid. That little space is always in shadow and it adds this menace to his character, along with the dialogue and the almost balletic grace that he hands out his little punishments.

    By the way, why is Ernest Lehman always whining?
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    Larry, despite the Hoffman connection I think there was more Lehman in Falco than Lehman wanted to admit.

    If I read right, Milner's combo is actually the Chico Hamilton quartet. Actually I think one of the weaknesses is that I don't believe Milner is hep enough to play jazz.

    I also read that Howe put Vaseline on Lancaster's glasses to give them that opaque look.

    I have to say that in SSOS New York looks like too damn much fun for me to find the characters completely pathetic. It's more like they can't enjoy what's around them because of the obsessive ambition.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    No, now I think maybe Hamilton's group is in another scene. I have seen the movie four times but my memory still betrays me occasionally.
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    By the way, what street are Sidney and JJ on when they have their first conversation? Lots of clubs on a single block. How could they not be having fun?
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    Not sure, that whole area just north of Times Square used to be hoppin'. You could have dinner, see a play for less than $10, then go listen to jazz. No wonder the oldtimers get misty.
  • Manny · 1 year ago
    Just dropping by to say this is one of my favorite movies of all time. Having spent 20 years as a journalist facing off against PR people (aka press agents) I find this the most dead-on portrayal of an industry built on desperation and lies. The genius of the movie is to make it so entertaining....I think that's the "noir" part. You know these characters are doomed, yet it's fun to watch them dig their graves.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    Journalists usually do love this movie. I don't suppose any one columnist has WInchell's power nowadays, but the mechanics of press agents feeding the press probably haven't evolved that much.
  • tomwatson · 1 year ago
    That whole era is over - only Matt Drudge has that kind of power these days, otherwise is all distributed widely to smaller audience segments. Oh, and blogs.

    And flacks aren't really flacks any more...
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    what are flacks now?
  • Manny · 1 year ago
    communications professionals
  • LanceManion · 1 year ago
    Tom, I'm sure you as an old Bewitched fan appreciated the appearance of Larry Tate.
  • tomwatson · 1 year ago
    Ah, Larry Tate...the classic clueless boss fall guy.
  • larry aydlette · 1 year ago
    I miss Earl Wilson.
  • Vanwall · 1 year ago
    I notice a certain VP candidate was quoting the...uh..."Great"...Westbrook Pegler recently; nice to know a legacy was still extant, if you're a sociopath.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    Nooooooo, I am declaring all my threads a Palin-free zone!

    (but yeah, when I found out the source of the quote I did wonder who on earth wrote that speech. One guess I liked was Bill Kristol.)

    now begone Palin, before somebody drops a house on you...
  • Vanwall · 1 year ago
    I used no names! How did you guess? ;-)
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    Well, we WERE talking about characters with glasses.
  • Vanwall · 1 year ago
    Well, at least I don't have blinders on mine, tho that smearing vaseline thingy sounds interesting.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    I never read his column ...
  • Vanwall · 1 year ago
    I think he used the phrase "It Stinks" with a real flair, if not a little overmuch.
  • Dan Leo · 1 year ago
    Excellent opening essay, dear Siren.

    To me this movie is Tony Curtis's masterpiece. I just find his performance perfect, and, yes, sympathetic -- but maybe that says something about me. After I had seen this movie a lot of times I read an interview with Curtis (I had never really read much about him before), and I saw how vulnerable he is and was, how insecure he was as a young man. Whatever, he played this part brilliantly. I was trying to think of how other, more vaunted actors would have fared in the part, Brando or (my favorite film actor) Montgomery Clift. Those men would have been great in the piece, but I don't know if they would have been better.

    The one thing I don't like about this movie? (And it's one of my all-time faves.) The two-young-lovers plotline. These two are just two fucking nice for my money. What the hell, if the movie was going to bomb anyway, couldn't they at least have shown Marty Milner smoking a joint? I mean, come on, the dude was a jazz musician.

    A re-make would undoubtedly suck, but if the Coen Brothers (the obvious choice) did re-make it I vote for making the young couple kinda fucked up too. (Clooney as J.J. and, uh, Brad Pitt as Sidney?)
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    Thanks, Dan! Harrison we haven't discussed, really. She looks wonderful, this little trembling greyhound in a coat, but she's out of her league and can't give Susie enough weight to make me care all that much if she goes over the balcony. Milner is better, but more like Dudley Do-Right than a jazz musician. Fortunately they both play a lot of scenes with Curtis, which helps a lot to maintain interest.
  • That Fuzzy Bastard · 1 year ago
    Actually, I think it's an important part of the movie's nasty kick that the lovers are such Grade-A saps---they're the world's ordinary people, who think they have a life when they're just being moved around the board by the more powerful, or even those who merely hope to become more powerful. Like the teenagers in a slasher movie, part of the thrill the movie provides the viewer is watching these dumb little bunnies stroll wide-eyed into the meat grinder.
  • Dan Leo · 1 year ago
    Good point, Fuzzy. But, still, I wish those two just weren't so damn dull!
  • larry aydlette · 1 year ago
    Well, there isn't much difference between Hunsecker and Hudsucker, is there? Sure, sure, sure...
  • Vanwall · 1 year ago
    I love the "French Connection" connection - Emile Meyer's Harry Kello was based on Eddie Egan, the real-life celebrity dope buster; "Popeye" must've come later, but the head-busting was there already.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    I had no idea. For my money Meyer is the scariest thing in the picture. Part of me thinks Sidney couldn't survive a beating from that guy.
  • Vanwall · 1 year ago
    Yeah, I'd zero Falco out after that, it was an almost subtle execution.
  • Campaspe · 1 year ago
    All right, time for me to hit the hay. I have a cold, which is bad timing, since a cold would have been perfect for next week and The Apartment.
  • tomwatson · 1 year ago
    Really? I was reading some figures from the Sickness and Accident Claims Division. You know that the average New Yorker between the ages of twenty and fifty has two and a half colds a year?
  • Vanwall · 1 year ago
    Nity nite, sweet dreams of sweet success.
  • wwolfe · 1 year ago
    I love knowing that Hunsecker lived in the Brill Building. Now I can picture Lieber and Stoller holed up in their office somewhere else in the same building, in that very same year, writing "Jailhouse Rock."

    Some years ago, American Heritage magazine ran a long piece about Ed Sullivan. Ed hated Walter Wichell, for his bigotry and all-around thuggishness. One night when Ed was dining at 21, or one of the other famous places of the day, when Winchell walked in. The latter had just written a nasty piece in which he smeared someone for the usual racist and/or red-baiting reasons, Seeing him enter, Sullivan got up from his table, walked across the room, grabbed Winchell by his belt and collar and hustled him into the men's room, where he stuck Walter's head in the toilet and flushed. That little story upped my opinion of Ed a lot.
  • Jim · 1 year ago
    I had no idea Ed Sullivan was like that. Good on him.
  • jmhm · 1 year ago
    My favorite Sweet Smell of Success factoid: Remember Darva Collins, the hard-as-nails blonde who discovered her self-respect when she found out the Millionaire she Married on the show of the same title wasn't one, really?

    Harrison was her mom.

    And if they’re saints, what are they doing here?

    Entropy is only a problem in a closed system :)
  • HenryFTP · 1 year ago
    Sorry to be so late to this party, but "I love this dirty town", too, and having first glimpsed New York as a wide-eyed seven year-old in 1962, this film preserves a nocturnal Manhattan that my parents knew but that was largely gone by the time I was an adult. Curtis really makes the film, better I think than even Brando or Clift could have done, as I don't think they could have brought across the desperate striving that was obviously a part of the makeup of the real Bernie Schwartz from the Bronx.

    The original failure of the film at the box office still mystifies me -- the 50s weren't entirely saccharine sweet. Curtis's character in Trapeze may be something of an ingenue, but the Lancaster and Lollabrigida characters are anything but sweet. The #2 and #8 top grossing films in 1957 were Peyton Place and Pal Joey, again hardly populated with sympathetic characters. I was surprised to see that The Searchers did rather well in its original release in 1956 (#13, with John Wayne in his darkest role). In 1958, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, Vertigo and Some Came Running were all top ten (##3, 8 and 10). It is perhaps not coincidental, however, that all of the films I've cited were shot in color, while both SSoS and A Face in the Crowd both did relatively poorly, notwithstanding Sweet Smell's breathtaking cinematography and memorable score. I think it's easy for us to forget nowadays how television had changed moviegoing habits -- very few of the top 20 grossing films in 1956-58 were shot in black and white.

    A few B&W films still managed to break through afterwards: Some Like It Hot (#3, 1959), Psycho (#2, 1960), The Apartment (#8, 1960), La Dolce Vita (#7, 1961), To Kill a Mockingbird (#7, 1962) and, surprisingly, The Manchurian Candidate (#15, 1962 -- I'd always heard this classic failed in initial release).

    John Frankenheimer and Billy Wilder kept shooting in black & white until they were forced to change (and Frankenheimer keeps his palette very limited in Ronin to great effect), but wouldn't Woody Allen's Manhattan be more ordinary if Gordon Willis hadn't shot it in black and white?
  • Dan Leo · 1 year ago
    Great comments, Henry. One of the reasons that I'm so fond of the decade following Sweet Smell is that this was the last era when film-makers could reasonably be able to make movies in black-and-white because they knew that black-and-white was best for the material:

    Besides Wilder's and Frankenheimer's B&W work from that tiime, just off the top of my head: Hud. The Hustler. Dr. Strangelove. Lolita. Hell Is For Heroes. Night of the Iguana. King Rat. A Hard Day's Night. Saturday Night and Sunday Morning. Loneliness of the Long-Distance Runner. Darling. The Knack. A Taste of Honey. The Spy Who Came in From the Cold. Bergman's movies, and Godard's and Truffaut's early movies. I Vitelloni, La Dolce Vita, 8 & 1/2. Rocco and His Brothers. Le Doulos. Not to mention Faster Pussycat, Kill! Kill!...and on and on. God movies suck nowadays...
  • Jim · 1 year ago
    The Longest Day also was in B&W, in 1962. Would that be the latest epic in monochrome?
  • Jim · 1 year ago
    I see Schindler's List also was B&W in 1993. I guess that would be considered an epic. Anything since then?
  • Dan Leo · 1 year ago
    I'm drawing a blank on any other B&W epics since Schindler, or even between Longest Day and Schindler's List.
  • Ben Alpers · 1 year ago
    One of my favorite movies....sorry I missed the discussion!
  • noelbotevera · 1 year ago
    Funny the mention of Dr. Strangelove--saw it being shown to some youths today, and found a particularly smart young man currently misspending his energy and intelligence laughing his head off at the mention of fluids. Amazing how the talk of fluids goes over the head of most kids--they need Adam Sandler to underline the funny in a comedy. This one got it--wish he'd stop wasting his time doing what he does...