DISQUS

Dan Leo · 2 years ago

I made it back from the gym just in time, Mrs Peel, and I even had time to take a shower, so I shouldn't be stinking up the room anyway. Unless it's with bad prose.

I'm with you, I'm enough of a design fanboy that I'm tuning in yet again.

Chuck Tryon · 2 years ago

I recovered from jogging just in time. I missed last week's episode, but I'm guessing I'll be able to catch up.

steverino · 2 years ago

When did this turn in to "Days of Our Lives"?

Lance Mannion · 2 years ago

Peirre Cardin?

Shoot.

I'm Brooks Brothers, head to toe. I'll go change.

Tassels on the loafers still ok, though?

Chuck Tryon · 2 years ago

Steverino, that's what I was starting to wonder. This episode is making me wonder why I liked the earlier shows.

steverino · 2 years ago

Steel...and the script is leaden.

blue girl · 2 years ago

So soap opera-ish. But, boy was that meeting pretty realistic. Sat in one today!

M.A. Peel · 2 years ago

Gentlemen, will someone refresh my drink?

blue girl · 2 years ago

steverino: It's totally "Days of Our Lives!"

Ugh! I hate that.

Jim Tourtelott · 2 years ago

Who told Peter Campbell he was good with people?

Wolcott's right--this is the worst advertising agency I've ever heard of.

blue girl · 2 years ago

I'm having a real problem with the vile, baby face. I don't like him. Don't like him as an actor -- the way he talks, don't buy that he's in that position, etc.

He just bugs me.

Dan Leo · 2 years ago

On the other hand I'm noticing that this time round all the scenes do have some drama. It's kinda low-key soap opera, but there is a confrontation and a problem in each scene, the sort of thing that would make Syd Field happy.

I noticed Tim Hunter's directing, who made "River's Edge" and worked on Twin Peaks and I think Deadwood and Sopranos. But, y'know, a TV director ain't exactly an auteur, is he or she?

Lance Mannion · 2 years ago

Baby Face Campbell just doesn't fit. His look's wrong for the period and for the character.

Chuck Tryon · 2 years ago

Blue girl, agreed on the baby-faced dude. Not working for me at all.

The lonely divorcee angle seems a little overplayed, too.

steverino · 2 years ago

You guys hit Campbell right on his baby-face head. While we're at it, Don's wife is either poorly written or poorly acted, doncha think?

James Wolcott · 2 years ago

I think babyface's father--the rich snob WASP patriarch in the unsightly shorts--I think he may have had an affair with John Cheever too. Or may be having an affair with Cheever even as this show unfolds!

Gee even the kids on this show are having midlife crises.

Chuck Tryon · 2 years ago

Maybe a little of both, but it's hard to play someone who is supposed to be that repressed and to make her interesting.

steverino · 2 years ago

o jeezis

Chuck Tryon · 2 years ago

If the WASP dad was having an affair with Cheever, that would make things at least a little more interesting.

James Wolcott · 2 years ago

I hope that kid put the snip of blonde hair under his pillow and not in his pajama bottoms.

steverino · 2 years ago

Wolcott - was it necessary to verbalize the vile thought we were all thinking?

Dan Leo · 2 years ago

Well, at least the little kid with the hair fetish moves us ever so slightly into Twin Peaks territory.

sluggo · 2 years ago

Not in his pants, but in a tube sock...

M.A. Peel · 2 years ago

Yeah, the Munster-like kid is another fantasy buzz kill for me. Not a very satisfying episode--

steverino · 2 years ago

go for the window, pete!

blue girl · 2 years ago

I agree with Dan Leo, the hater. There are some subtle things going on, but I don't really care.

I'm not even going to go downstairs to watch anymore. I'll just read the comments and contribute all willy-nilly.

James Wolcott · 2 years ago

Babyface's tearful shock at having the bottom drop out of his world is the truest dramatic/emotional moment the show has had. It would have been stronger if they hadn't cut to Frosted Blonde's boring shrink's- couch meanderings.

Love Robert Morse, though--has real unforced authority.

Dan Leo · 2 years ago

Baby Face Pete Campbell -- saved by family connections -- it's like the early days of GW Bush. Except Pete's more likeable.

Chuck Tryon · 2 years ago

The drinking scene with Don Draper was a nice bit...but I guess I'm drawn to characters talking about existential angst and such things.

Still a rather flat episode in general.

Chuck Tryon · 2 years ago

And now on to The Daily Show....

James Wolcott · 2 years ago

They should drop all the Seconal-in-the-suburbs lives-of-quiet-desperation stuff--it's so glacial and cliched--and concentrate on the jockeying for power and advantage at the agency. The scenes with Morse and John Slattery had real bite, and helped draw a better bead on what's under Draper's facade.

Jim Tourtelott · 2 years ago

I agree about Morse's scene, but I think casting Morse is a mistake. Suddenly you're reminded of exactly how this material has been treated with wit and the nervous energy that, as somebody pointed out last week, really characterized this period. The last thing the guys putting this on ought to do is compare it to "How to Succeed . . ."

Dan Leo · 2 years ago

I gotta say -- I'm drawn in. And, pace Blue Girl, I'm interested in Baby Face Pete.

But y'know, a problem with the show is the problem with all these shows that have assumed the multi-plot soap opera format. It's a meagerness of drama and development. I kinda miss the old days when a night-time TV show would have just one story per episode, a story that would actually be resolved, you know, like an episode of Then Came Bronson or The Fugitive. The main character's story continues on, but we've seen one complete story on a given night. The problem with these soap-opera sort of shows is that when they're not done really well you just have a string of sub-plots that just leave you hanging.

So I know this is not going to be one of those old-style shows with a beginning, middle and end each episode, but I kinda miss that. But I'm an old fart.

M.A. Peel · 2 years ago

I agree if they focused on the workplace alone it would be stronger and more interesting. It's one decision the L&O franchise made that was a good one.

ghosh · 2 years ago

There's something wrong with the casting here. Everyone seems as if they sort of drifted in through a rent in the time/space continuum and are actually playing parts from Bewitched, or The Bad Seed or understudying Florence Bates in Watch on the Rhine on an out of town tryout. They're blurring up whatever good points the script might be making. All the parents are bizarre "grown-up" caricatures. The co-op woman was terrifying and an obvious comic trope, the Bethlehem guy had distracting ears and a quaint lecherousness that was passe by 1960. Most egregiously miscast is Draper's wife. Miscast because she can't act, no there there. And why would they have made her pull down her panties in the bathroom scene? An inappropriate post-modern intrusion that was an embarrassing gaffe by the director.

Karen · 2 years ago

Who was it who mentioned "Twin Peaks"? Yes, they're definitely going for the Lynchian corruption- under-the-sunny-facade approach. But it's not been given enough context.

Combining the creepy extremism of Hair Fetish Boy with the tired cliches of Anxious, Unsatisfied Suburban Housewife and Emotionally Crippled Blueblood Son and Emotionally Distant Blueblood Dad and Bohemian/Slightly Slutty Ad Artist Girl and god knows how many else...it's just a bunch of symbols standing in for a story.

When I was listening to the DVD commentary for "Hot Fuzz," Edgar Wright mentioned that he and Simon Pegg got Roger Ebert's "Little Book of Movie Cliches" so that they could make sure they included every last one of them in their screenplay. But they were doing it to take the piss. What's Weiner's excuse?

I'm also really not buying the ad agency angle. Those steel campaigns Draper came up with WERE crap. "Oh Little Town of Bethlehem"? Puh-leeze. I actually DID like "The Backbone of America." It was much better than Don's two attempts. I thought he was supposed to be such a natural at this?

And he and Sterling really disdain the notion of pitching to a client in a bar? Who ARE they, anyway?

The one scene I liked was Sterling handling the non-firing of Campbell. I wasn't sure how that would be handled without Don losing face.

I agree that Kartheiser's not right for Pete. I DO still see sulky Connor. Whereas Campbell isn't supposed to be sulky--he's supposed to be overprivileged, arrogant, and troubled.

Josh · 2 years ago

Anybody catch the "Fresh Air" interview with Matt Weiner yesterday? He specifically addressed the "this ad agency sucks" criticism, saying that Sterling Cooper is supposed to be a third-rate agency and that that would become clearer as the show went on. Sounded a bit pat to me.

cgeye · 2 years ago

Pete was a goner as soon as he contradicted his boss in the meeting -- but why in heaven's name did he not know how to schmooze people? He obviously came up through the private school/country club system, and I thought that was all about learning how to cloak one's assholry in good manners and discreet manipulation of others. Since when did they stop teaching how to make a boss look good, by giving him your ideas, and sharing in the spoils, later?

Pete could have saved the account less destructively -- his idea *was* better than Don's -- and gotten a step up from being the team's whoremaster.

As for the kid, how did he get that screwed up, with a boatload of paraphilias? Weiner has to stop with the explications, already -- they won't be there in syndication, so why not expand the episodes, to show, not tell?

SteinL · 2 years ago

Why are TV-series all over the place these days? Studio 60 never made up its mind as to what it was about, and ended up as West Wing with soldiers in Afghanistan and the Pentagon in the Writer's Room.

Damages I lost interest in after two episodes - as it was clear it was headed for mindfuck territory and didn't have a plan worked out. Yes, we're all mean, now move on.

Madmen I settled into in episode 1, got bored with by episode 3, and after episode 4 I have the Season 1 story arc figured out. Don Draper is set up to suck (their advertising does, definitely). Pete Campbell realizes he's an adman - the two end up hitting it off together -- but who cares about these people? And why is it all telegraphed from afar? TV-viewers can't be this stupid, we don't need things written on our noses to get the point, or?
So - Madmen is getting as confused as Studio 60 - and is soon transformed into Desperate Housewives if they don't watch it.

I'm bored already.

cgeye · 2 years ago

Frak, it took me long enough to figure out, but THE COMPANY is the evil, drunken, armed twin of MAD MEN, down to the Brooks Brothers suits and the cigar-smoking in the baby's face.

Both firms feature hidebound, incompetent, self-affirming bureaucracies who reward failure with bourbon and accepted affairs, who sell out anyone darker or more passionate, on campaigns which look good on paper, but don't really pan out well, and employees who, after frakking up their worlds just enough to ensure continued employment, go home to the wife and the kids, smug that the crap they sow won't follow them home, at all.

Me, issues? Yes, I've got a few -- but seeing how that MAD MEN attitude flowed over to the men who had their delirium tremens fingers over the nuclear trigger, just got my dander up, is all...

cgeye · 2 years ago

And, one more thing -- the direction of the ad was wrong -- Don pointed the ad at the cities -- their fonts were bigger, and the design and copy made Bethlehem Steel look small, and 'Little Town' made it worse. For a team that lives in fear of the VW 'Lemon' approach, they sure as hell are attempting it, without respecting why that approach was powerful -- it empowered the customer, with a car that was not better than them, but a car that was enough for the growing young adult market.

Gunnar Lindberg · 2 years ago

Well, I cant say I agree at all about Pete Campbell. I think the actor is perfectly cast. But I never seen him in anything else, so I cant compare.

This show is the best I seen in years. Just wonderful.